Insights with Ben Chodor

Conversation with Natasha Miller (Relentless)

April 29, 2022 Ben Chodor Season 2 Episode 11
Insights with Ben Chodor
Conversation with Natasha Miller (Relentless)
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Show Notes Transcript

Entrepreneur Natasha Miller broke free from a troubled, abusive childhood to build a multi- million dollar entertainment production company while raising her daughter as a single parent.

In this episode of the Insights podcast, Ben Chodor interviews Natasha about her memoir Relentless and the transformational inner work she did to grow her confidence and independence as well as the strategic, practical steps that enabled her to activate profits, optimize her systems, and become a leader with intention.

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Ben Chodor  0:00  
Good morning! Good afternoon! Good evening, wherever you are! I am super excited about this interview with Natasha Miller and her book, Relentless - and for a couple of reasons. One is, I had the privilege of being on Natasha's podcast several months ago; I not only have read her book, but then I listened to the audio version of her book. And she is the voice on it. And I got to hear her music as well. So I cannot wait to jump into this interview with Natasha. Natasha, why don't you come on for a second, first of all, phenomenal book. Traditionally, when I do these, it's about someone talking about, you know, practical things that, you know, our 1400 plus employees and all the followers on podcast can actually take in use and go forward. Not only you have practical things here, but it's also your life story. And I love the title Relentless, and you are 100% relentless, and everyone should read this book, because you'll just learn so much about triumph, challenge, diversity and overcoming it, an d always having this incredible positivity - even when you didn't think you were being positive, you were, because how do you go forward and do all these amazing things? I want to jump right into my first question. Before we dive into the book, you're a person who wears lots of hats, right? For our listeners, how do you describe who you are? And what you do? We know you're a mother, we know you're an entrepreneur, we know you're a musician. I mean, there's so many things, but how do you describe what you do?

Natasha Miller  1:52  
It really depends on who I'm talking to. And I really do have to speak to the audience that I'm speaking to, because if I rattled off all the things, I just sound crazy. And there's no focus to that description. So right now, at this point in my life, I feel like I'm really being able to be creative. And I am a visionary for my company, and doing strategy for the company. But right now, I just, I'm really just living my best life of figuring out business, for the most part; helping other people with their businesses. And now, you know, I've taken so much from life from my being relentless. And hopefully I've given back in some form. But I feel like this next version - or next version of my life - next iteration, is to give to everyone what I wish I would have known 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 30, you know, 20 years ago, for various things. And this book that you know, you talk about, it's not prescriptive, there's not a to do list. You don't get your pencil and paper out and take notes. But I'm hoping that it impacts people positively in some way. And it really depends on where the reader is, or the listener in their own life journey, as to how much I'll pack them and how far, right? It could be a nudge, a push a catapult. I'm not here to try to transform everyone's lives. But if I can make a little, you know, jostle in their life, to get them toward what they really want to be doing, that lights me up.

Ben Chodor  3:41  
And you make it sound in the book, if you could overcome every aspect you had in front of you, then there's hope for all of us - and I so relate to so much you did in the book. But the book, Relentless, details your incredible challenges: your childhood, which is filled with neglect and abuse; you detail the way your mother treated you, how your father never had the tools to step in and help [in] a substantial way. But there are also moments when the people around you quietly supported you. Can you tell the story of your violin teacher and how we helped you purchase a new bow for your violin? And before you do that, do you still you mentioned in the book you always play it? When's the last time you pick up your violin and play?

Natasha Miller  4:27  
I played my violin on March 26 at the San Francisco MoMA for my launch concert event for the book.

Ben Chodor  4:38  
I love that.

Natasha Miller  4:40  
And so the story about that is I was studying from a very young age - seventh grade or eighth seventh or eighth grade - with a college professor named Dr. Beal at Drake University and it was terrifying because he was the concert master. He was playing a $38,000 violin. He had a gruff demeanor not Sweet and you know, overly caring. And so I was like, oh my God; I would skip school to practice for my lessons, because I couldn't let them down. But at one point I was paying for my lessons on my own. And, you know, it was too expensive. And I couldn't afford it. But somehow, with the relentless tenacity that I somehow had, it was really a way to survive. You know, I was paying him. And I didn't know this one day he presented me with, basically, it could have been a spaghetti sauce jar, but it might have been a mason jar with a bunch of money in it. And he said: This is for you. This is the money that you've paid me for the lessons for the last past, I don't know how many - you need a new bow, and a bow and a violin, people probably think, oh, that's an expensive violin. But if you don't have the bow that matches the quality of the violin, then things are not as easy or beautiful with that instrument, which is hard to make sound beautiful in the first place. And he said, there's a bow that I've chosen for you at Reman Music, which was our local music store - which I felt like an imposter even going into that store as a young girl. And I took the jar to Reman Music. And of course, the money that was in the jar was not enough to pay for the bow. So I was in a moment of oh, but they said, the bow is yours. It's been taken care of. And my professor had arranged to buy it for me.

Ben Chodor  6:38  
You know, it's interesting, because I always tell people that when when we hire people, that you got to work really hard, right? There's no shortcuts. And you have to put the time in. But if you will have some luck along the way. And you were lucky to meet him because you've always had the talent. But you were able to meet him. Are there other mentors or teachers that helped you achieve success that you want to share?

Natasha Miller  7:05  
Yes, actually, the person that brought me to Dr. Beal was Diane Pope. And you know, even today, being a female conductor of a symphony orchestra is very rare. There's not many of them there. But this was, you know, I was 12 at the time, so a long time ago. She was just such a beautiful person. She was kind of hard nosed, too; like she wasn't especially soft around the edges, but a little softer than Dr. Beal and she saw something in me that was special. And to tell you, that just felt so amazing when I wasn't being seen in the rest of my life. Now, that introduction she made to Dr. Beal scared the life out of me. But I didn't say no, I didn't back down. And so those two people alone, and so many people in music, were my saviors and create it helped me create a life and ultimately save my life because of that.

Ben Chodor  8:08  
Wow. I mean, when you think about that, that's incredible. All right. I know starting out as a young teen, you had lots of jobs, right? I think you were a hostess, a waitress, a babysitter, wedding musician, you folding shirts at Eddie Bauer, I think; later on you were an advertising love this story about how you got into advertising. Then you opened a record label booking agency? Where did the hustle come from? And where  did you learn? Or where did the motivation to come that just keep on moving well, being relentless, where, from where in your core does it come from?

Natasha Miller  8:47  
I am going to take a guest because there's not a real way to find out. But I think that burning fire of entrepreneurial spirit that I have, that has me... So, entrepreneurs, you know, for those that are watching or listening, aren't just business owners - there's a difference. Entrepreneurs are always going for the ideas and the in the opportunities. And typically entrepreneurs have more than one business line eventually. And I think because I had to fend for myself at such a young age, and not just fend for myself, but pay rent, pay utility bills, buy food, that I monetized anything that I was remotely good at. And if I saw something or someone doing something that I thought, I'd like to do that, I just did it.

Ben Chodor  9:40  
I love that. I mean, listen - as an entrepreneur myself, who started a couple of companies and sold it, I wrote an article after I sold my first business going why would anyone it was like a note to my wife, basically. Why would anyone marry an entrepreneur? Right? Yeah, because we're relentless, right? I mean, your book is about this. You're always thinking you're always moving. And right, there's not just one line. And I, just your hope - this is why everyone should read this book, because it's not just about its motivation. And you get to see how Natasha is relentless. But her story and what she was able to overcome, if you could overcome it, everyone could overcome whatever's in front of them. And there is, you know, there is something on the other side, you know? One of the other themes that really resonated with me, because when I graduated from college, and when I was in college, I thought I was going to be in the music industry, I had my first job at work for Rondelles, near I was in concert promotion, I couldn't sing, I had no music, talent, but I knew production.

Natasha Miller  10:42  
You still need people to like you in the industry.

Ben Chodor  10:45  
As someone who has to be able to get, well you actually did two things, someone had to get you to gigs and put on the show; you were like, Hey, not only am I going to be the musician, I'm also going to book myself because that's how I'm gonna get on stage. But I love how music sort of always throughout the book, the power of music, it feels like music really saved you. It also helped you develop skills that helped you as an entrepreneur. Give mr a couple of examples of how music made you a better entrepreneur?

Natasha Miller  11:13  
Well, you know, there are so many musicians that are excellent, that are phenomenal that you will never ever hear. Right? They can't get themselves out of their back bedroom or their basement. And they can't promote themselves and they feel icky about it, or they're shy or introverted or whatever. And I, you know, I feel like my brain is split left and right. You know, I'm very good at analytical marketing branding, which is also creative, but it always was exciting to me. And nobody else was doing it for me. Now, did I want someone to do it? Yes. And I didn't understand immediately why people weren't like flocking to be my manager; then I realized you have to be making money for somebody to want to take you under their wing and help you. But by the time I got to that place, I'm like, Well, I don't need to necessarily be giving someone 10 to 20%, I can do all this myself. And so really, from the age of 15, where I had my first professional gig as a violinist playing for the governor's inauguration. I mean, that lit me up. That was an adrenaline rush. And it was like music and the successes that I have, not just with music, but everything else is my drug.

Ben Chodor  12:32  
Right. And then you even mentioned in the book, when you went from being a musician, booking to being a full out event planner, you said that your time being a hostess at a Spaghetti Works, and conducting an orchestra truly set you up for it. When you land, I think your first client for you did a full event was alike AAA, right? And love the story about AAA in what you did in all the cars, which I thought was brilliant. But why being a conductor and being a hostess, how'd  that really prepare you to run soup to nuts, the entire event?

Natasha Miller  13:12  
I think, especially for Spaghetti Works. So it's funny; Spaghetti Works back on that day, there was an hour to hour and a half. Wait. And so there's all these tables, and they're turning over and over and over. And as a hostess. I had to... it's sort of a mathematical, also sort of an art and science of how to jostle and juggle when tables are gonna get up. And is it a six top? Is it a two top? So it's a logistics problem. And I had a couple of good managers that were you know, definitely like they're still managing restaurants to this day. I'm sure it's a whole culture, right? But I learned I loved that analytical moving of like, I got it. Okay, I got them all seated. Okay, you know, I got everything. People are seated before they were, you know, I'm trying to deliver something greater than they expected. Right. And I think watching that and not being the waitress at first was a really good way of showing me the logistics; and then as far as being concert master of an orchestra, right? And watching the conductor, the conductor is managing little tranches, right within this 80 to 120 person orchestra and communicating to them. So it's kind of like advancing vendors and clients, right? It's kind of a cool metaphor now that we're having this conversation. And so I was already set up because my brain accepted and enjoyed that mechanical, analytical part and not just the playing the beautiful music.

Ben Chodor  14:54  
I love that and I can see when you're running an event, and when you're sitting back watching it, it's like an orchestra, right? This one comes in at this time, this music starts here, the lighting starts here. And when it works out perfectly, there is nothing more joyful in the entire world. And when it doesn't, you still are sitting there going, what am I going to do next? And how am I going to fix it? And you actually set a quote in the book that I love. You said, improv is a key skill for jazz, right? Being able to just play off the other musicians. But you don't want to run a business that way. What did you mean by that?

Natasha Miller  15:31  
I mean, the foundation that you have to have for a business cannot be improvised. However, that is how a bit my business was for the first 10 years because it really was a lifestyle business. I wasn't planning on scaling and growing it, so it was really just paying for my lifestyle, which wasn't extravagant. And there wasn't any more left there. So I could get away with not having all the ducks in order. When I started to scale and grow, I realized that that foundation had to really be laid out. And your systems and processes have to be analyzed all the time, because things will be changing as you as you grow. And it's interesting, because we do have such like, Ben, I think I mentioned to you at some point, one year, we did 777 events with two people in operations. I think that's in the book, too. You know that that's absurd. Right? But it's because of the foundation I laid. And the system I built that cost money, that took work, that hurt my brain. But now we stand out. I mean, this is one of the biggest differentiators in of entire productions amongst all of our competitors. But not even just our competitors; catering companies, lighting companies, hotels, like you go into a hotel sales room, and what do you? See racks and racks of what? Manila folders with paper? We have been completely paperless since 2015. if not before, which is crazy.

Ben Chodor  17:09  
I mean, eight, seven years ago, you were paperless, and nobody was paperless. Which is incredible. But you know, it's interesting when I was thinking about when you wrote that is I understand how improv... Your mind works because you can move around a lot of different things at a time. But at the end, it has to be really structured and really organized. I had the privilege of interviewing Brandon Hunter, who's one of the co founders, one of the writers, and stars of Ted Lasso; he plays Coach Beard. 

Natasha Miller  17:11  
Oh my gosh, I love it! 

Ben Chodor  17:35  
I asked him, what's one piece of advice you can give to all leaders out there all employees and he goes, improv - everyone should take an improv class. And I'm going like, oh, yeah, you want to improv so you can think on your feet. And he goes, No, Ben, you got it totally wrong. Everyone should take an improv class because you'll learn how to listen to the other person, and then react and when you were talking about the improv because of jazz, you need to, in order to be able to improv and jazz, you have to listen to the other instrument, you don't just jump ahead, or it just won't sound good together. And I just love how you put that all together.

Natasha Miller  18:20  
Yeah, to recap, you know, I didn't really touch on the improv part. If you have a foundation, then you can improv. Right? But you can't, you can't do it. Because or, I mean, you can, if you don't want to scale and grow; you can change things every day. But nobody's gonna like you and people aren't gonna keep buying from you or wanting to work with you.

Ben Chodor  18:41  
I love that. All right, you're also right, that your event company grew on five core values, collaboration, excellence, growth-minded, own it, and always be scrappy. How did you choose these as your values?

Natasha Miller  18:59  
Well, one is the excellence part is something that I hope that me and my team are embodying every day at every moment. And the pursuit of perfection is not part of how we talk or approach anything; I think perfection is you know, just in the world, as a whole, a really negative goal. So, if you're being excellent in everything that you do, even if things fall through the cracks or something goes wrong, then there's an integrity there. And it works for everyone. It works for yourselves, it works for the company, it works for the vendors, it works for the clients, and excellence in communicating when things go wrong, excellence in planning to hopefully, combat things going wrong, but as you know, there's going to be something there's going to be one slightly major thing that happens in an event. And if you've planned well, and your excellent before that one thing goes wrong, we have time. And the ability to figure out the fix for it.

Ben Chodor  20:09  
Those are great, great points. One of the things you mentioned the book is that you felt like your company was like a family. Do you still as it's grown? Do you still feel that way?

Natasha Miller  20:21  
Well, let me say this. You know, earlier on, I treated some employees really like family or close, close friends. And I think that can work for a lot of people. And in that sense, I was not as mature as I am now. And the person that I was friendly with was not very mature, either. And it exploded. And there are a couple of things that have happened because of that closeness that I allowed. And now, like, I look at my team, they might not see me as family. I think they respect me. But I see them as people that I care about, and want to attend to and take care of. So not just with the job and a salary. But, you know, really supporting them as whole human beings. And that doesn't mean getting involved in their personal life or knowing every little thing. But the authentic caring for them, is something that's really important to me. And I think that probably comes from my wanting to have a cohesive family that is positive.

Ben Chodor  21:30  
No, I like that. Because I always say to everybody is the last thing I do before I go to bed at night: did I do right by our 1400 employees? Not did I become their best friends? Did I make the right decisions? Because every decision I do affects affects their livelihood. It's just really fascinating to me. Also, what's fascinating to me is, I know you went to I guess it's a graduate master's program at MIT for entrepreneurship, and also at Harvard. And then your favorite thing is you got to stay in a dorm at Harvard, and one of the things that you liked about it. What are a couple things that you walked, away as an entrepreneur, you had a successful business before that it's not like you went to there, and to find your way and become a, you know, a successful business person. Like, what couple things did you walk away going it was worth the cost of admission outside of the networking, right?

Natasha Miller  22:27  
Yeah, so that experience, okay, I'm going to start with MIT, I'm actually still in that program. It was delayed because of COVID. And what I'm learning there is that yes, I've had a successful business, and still have, but there's so much more for me to learn. And the beauty in the excitement that I have is no matter how far down the line of knowledge I get, there's always going to be more to learn. So that was one thing. And there was, there were mind blowing things for me to learn from 10 different presenters that first year. And, you know, coming from where my professor or my counselors at high school, thought that I would end up dead in a gutter. And that no one tried to help me get into college. And yes, I did go to college. But I didn't finish to be able then to go to MIT and Harvard is a head scratcher. So I didn't, I never felt like I needed a degree. But those experiences at MIT and Harvard, now line up with who I've become. And it feels really good. Now, Harvard, that was really challenging, because Harvard Business School teaches on case study methods. And that is wonderful for some people, if you like to read 12 to 28 pages of very intense data about companies that you don't really care about, and then find the learning in between the you know, so I was able to actually present my own case study for this system that I created for entire productions in the thought that I might unfurl it to all these companies as a production strategy. And that experience, that alone, not having to do with it being at Harvard, or staying at the dorm, that opportunity, and the feedback I got was worth the price of admission.

Ben Chodor  24:27  
I love that. So if you're gonna give a young entrepreneur out there, just take one or two pieces of advice, what would you tell?

Natasha Miller  24:33  
You know, this has come up recently, and I've realized that if you ask me, what sacrifices have you made as an entrepreneur or what sacrifices have you made to pursue your dreams and goals? I don't look at anything that I did as a sacrifice. I look at it as a choice. So if you're rolling around in a expensive car that you can't really afford, if you're living beyond your means, and you're like, I can't be an entrepreneur because I can't let go this day job or this paycheck. First of all, entrepreneurship might not be for you. But the choice that you need to make, or the choices that I made, opened up my world, to this incredible experience, and it has led me to right here talking to you, someone that I really admire. You and I would not be having this conversation if I didn't make those choices. Again, not sacrifices, and it's the mind frame of, you know, so you know, that I moved from a home that was more expensive to a one bedroom garden apartment. What did Bennet say, Mom, it's a basement apartment, but whatever. The way I chose to see it was that it was a garden apartment. And I do remember a thing, people saying, Oh, wow, you're just you're giving up so much. I'm like, No, I'm not. So I guess that's advice without giving advice?

Ben Chodor  26:04  
No, it's the perfect advice. I mean, it's what people you should think about, if you're an entrepreneur, it's the same, it's the same thing I would, I would say, as well. And we are lucky you made all those choices, because you've done such amazing things. So now a question I got and we're gonna, we're gonna switch to COVID is, is rampant is coming here. And you I mean, coincidentally, as this great serial entrepreneur, you're a musician, you booked music, you produce live events, what is all three have in common? They are a physical live program going on in a moment in time. And then poof, we're in COVID, no one's going anywhere. So the entrepreneur inside of your head. You morph to virtual, but not just virtual, throwing your camera on and making it you go really in depth on how people should think about it? I think the  first thing you did was like a variety show, right? Or some kind of talent show? And I just loved reading about it. How did you know you were going to make this more when it happened? And did you even spend one day panicked? Like, oh, my God, what are you gonna do?

Natasha Miller  27:18  
I spent a first of all, Ben, I knew that I had to make serious choices in my business and made them before my other, you know, other companies in my genre. And it felt horrible. It felt icky, because I was making decisions about having to furlough and layoff people before anyone else. But truthfully, those were good business decisions, right? So there are companies that are 300,000 to $5 million in debt, your org closed down because of the choices they made. So panic, panic attacks, like real physical, not just mental, you know, disability, I mean, just lay me down. But after I did that, and I had a couple of days of, you know, wallowing in, are we going to be homeless, which is, you know, a little dramatic of a jump, but it is what my mind did. I went to bed and I started ideating. And I was thinking about how we could move to virtual. And I honestly, it was a little bit of a manic situation, because I had all these ideas just flashing in my head. The next day, I woke up, I created a whole deck, I called up the CEO of Mansueto Ventures, which runs Ink Magazine. I mean, I didn't start small, right? We had no proof of concept. We hadn't ever done this entire variety show format. But I'm like, this is this is gonna be the way and he was like, very interesting. It's not just talent, it's, you know, making sure that keynotes and information are heard and accepted by making them shorter, faster-paced and sandwiched between interactive and entertaining elements.

Ben Chodor  29:13  
I think that's incredible. And I love that how you mark? And are you even saying the book and now your organization's even better because you have back to physical hybrid and 100% virtual so you basically have three companies in one now that you didn't have before, and you're continuing to grow. And I love that - that's the entrepreneurial spirit. So I'm going to end this with just a series of like, kind of rapid fire questions so you don't have to answer them really fast. And if you had a pic, I don't know three albums that you if you were stuck on a desert island or stuck in your apartment and you couldn't leave for a month, what would the three be?

Natasha Miller  29:58  
Synchronicity by Police, or one of them; Zenyatta Mondatta
. Okay, whatever. A Bonnie Raitt album? I know this has nothing to do with jazz or classical. Let me think...

Ben Chodor  30:20  
You are more than welcome to think.

Natasha Miller  30:23  
I mean, gosh, I keep coming back to this. I don't listen to this all day but like Phil Collins, the one that has the studio on it?

Ben Chodor  30:31  
Oh, he gets great minor like Rumors. Eagles Greatest Hits because achieving go with a greatest hits someone and I don't know, like Springsteen, you know.

Natasha Miller  30:45  
You're an East Coast guy.

Ben Chodor  30:47  
I grew up in Jersey, so I have to do that. Alright. Next question for you is, what's your favorite food?

Natasha Miller  30:55  
I love brussel sprouts, weirdly, but I love Asian and Indian food as a kind of food.

Ben Chodor  31:03  
Favorite word besides relentless?

Natasha Miller  31:11  
Well, it's similar but tenacity.

Ben Chodor  31:14  
Tenacity. Tenacity is great, least favorite word. Word you hate hearing.

Natasha Miller  31:20  
Can't. Won't.

Ben Chodor  31:22  
Can't, won't.

Natasha Miller  31:24  
I mean, that's two words, but...

Ben Chodor  31:27  
I love that candle, not giving up because you're, you're relentless. And I gotta tell you something. Natasha, this was so much fun. I am such a big fan. Everyone read the book because it just I love the story. And yours entire book is a series of stories and how you are able to triumph. And I cannot wait to see what your next chapter is. And one of my one of the added things I got out of the book is I feel like I know your daughter Bennett really well now. I'm sure I don't. But it was great seeing your entire journey. Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

Natasha Miller  32:05  
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And we'll do this again and again and again, as both of us create new things within what we're doing.

Ben Chodor  32:15  
Absolutely. One day we have to work together. We have to do something and everyone should also on Spotify. Put in Natasha Miller, not just your podcast, which is amazing. Not just a book which you have to buy and then write a great review on. But her music your music is amazing. My favorite album of hers is her life. But she has so many amazing other albums out there as well and music. So thank you so much and have a great day.

Natasha Miller  32:42  
Thank you, Ben.