Insights with Ben Chodor

Conversation with Ron Tite (Think.Do.Say)

June 17, 2020 Ben Chodor/Ron Tite Season 1 Episode 4
Insights with Ben Chodor
Conversation with Ron Tite (Think.Do.Say)
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Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of Insights, Ben sits down with author Ron Tite to talk about his book, Think.Do.Say.

Today, you and your clients, prospects, and colleagues are inundated with promotional messaging, non-stop content, broken promises, endless product extensions, and the pressure to follow articles that state, “Here’s What Successful People Do Before 7am.”

You don’t know where to look and you don’t know who to trust.

People used to vote with their wallet but now they vote with their time. Winning that time has never been more difficult and staying top of mind is even tougher.

Ditch the jargon, and start making good things happen for yourself and your career.

For more information on Think.Do.Say and Ron Tite, visit www.thinkdosay.com

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0:00
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are. I'm Ben Chodor and welcome to insights. This is like a really cool show an opportunity for me because it gives me a chance to interview people that I'm really impressed with, that I've met along the way, or someone has introduced me to this one's a really special one to me because one first Ron Tite wrote an amazing book. I've read it twice. finished it last night on a red eye back home for my second read through Think Do Say everyone should read this. I think this is um, listen, anyone can talk about sales motivation, and anyone could talk about, you know, building a better team and stronger team. But anyone who's in any business for any brand, any company, you got to read a book like this, I loved it. And it's not just someone saying what you're supposed to do was a lot of Think Do Say right? But I was at the content marketing conference a couple months ago and normally I show up at the conference. Go to booth meet with some clients. I was interviewed on the Content Marketing Show. And then I was flying home in the afternoon. I had like 45 minutes, 15 minutes before I had to go to the airport. And our head of one of our heads of marketing said, Hey, I'm going to go here to this keynote from this guy, Ron Tite and you guys you want to come and I said, I haven't spent much time with Kathy in a couple months. So I said, All right, I'll come sit with you. And we'll go, and I'll probably cut out really, right, you know, halfway through a quarter way through. I stayed to the very end and it was Ron Tite speaking. I, since we're a streaming company, and I started in the world of production. I've sat through some of the world's most famous public speakers, and keynotes of some of the world's largest organizations. I gotta say, this was the one keynote, everything he said, I was like, Oh my god, this is spot on. And it was one of the few times when his presentation was over. I wished it wasn't over. And then I did something I never do. I almost became like a fanboy. I actually wait Did online with three or four other people not to ask them a question not to say, just to say, I loved your presentation. And because it takes a lot to get me excited about when someone speaks because I hear so many people speak. And then I did. Another thing that was pretty ridiculous. On the way to airport, I sent them a LinkedIn message that one of the best presentations ever said, so and then I noticed that he has a book coming out. I ordered the book A few days later, and then it came like I don't know, a couple weeks later, and I am so glad. So I babbled there, but at least you know this is all coming from a real place. This is what I'm all about. It's about not being scripted. It's about being really true and real to who you are. So let me introduce you to Ron Tite, the author of Think Do Say, Ron, welcome to insights.

2:48
Thank you for having me and thank you for those such a lovely introduction. That was amazing. And you know, I think it says a lot about, about you and about your character that you know, we all experienced Great stuff, read great stuff in here great stuff. But there's a lot of inertia required to actually go you know, I'm gonna actually send this person a note and just say thank you. So thanks for sending that. I think it says a lot about you.

3:11
And and with no ask, right? And that's which later on, I'm going to ask you a couple questions. And you do a whole thing on this on LinkedIn about how people approach you and you know, everything that goes along with it. I didn't have an ask. And it's sometimes weird to send someone note without an ask. And I try to do that a lot with my my global staff. We have 1300 people around the world, and in Toronto itself has about 8000 people globally. And every now and then when someone does something, really good, I just like to send them a note. Hey, you really appreciate it. And thank you. And that response I normally get from someone who works in our office and nag recoil or someone else in the world is like, Oh, my God, like, why the President of our organization reach out to me and I'm like, because it's all about our people, right? And so,

3:55
anyway, now what's interesting is somebody reached out and said, you know, I'd love to grab a call just to to get your perspective on this. And I had met him, you know, it wasn't a complete cold call. And I said, Yeah, sure. So, you know, I hopped on a call and listened and gave some advice. And, and then he said, Can I just ask you? Why are you helping me? And as if I had no agenda here, I just knew ask for help. I gave it yep. And that's how cynical they were like, Yeah, but what's your agenda,

4:30
I feel exactly the same. I want to jump right into this because I know I know your time is really important. First, what was the first job you ever had?

4:37
The very first job was a newspaper boy. in Oshawa, Ontario, which is Canada's Flint, Michigan, used to be home to large General Motors plant. So I was a paper boy, and I know we were tight with time but yeah, so I would deliver a paper. That was voluntary payment. So if you wanted to pay, you could pay and that money went to the carrier. And if you didn't want to pay, you didn't have to pay because was really just about the horrible ads. It wasn't the peak journalism. And so when I inherited the paper route, I converted more people from non paying to paying than anybody else in the system and I was voted the carrier of the Year for the Oshawa this week for that conversion rate. But the in this was such an important lesson, because I grew up in a big apartment building, and I delivered the papers in the apartment building and the person before me didn't live in the apartment right? So bif Ron Tite, from 408 is coming to collect what you're not going to pay me Of course, you're going to pay me and so the early lesson of like, you know, it's great to do business. We know us who really know us and keep your friends close.

5:55
I love that story. I mean, I love it shows listen You're a marketer. How old were you at the time about?

6:05
And I was, I was at 10 years old. That's,

6:08
I love it. So you were you were hustling at 10 years old. It's incredible. Which makes me think my first job that I ever had that wasn't a real job. Like in high school. It was during the gas shortage in the US. Somewhere in the in the late 70s, or somewhere in the 70s. Yeah, yep. And so it was again, I lived in a garden apartment complex. And there was always line at the gas station at the end of the garden apartment, and I sold coffee, like went up and down, sell a coffee. And I knew most of the people because they most of them lived in a port and everyone bought it and that's how I got my first job I ever made, how I how I hustled. Alright, so here's another question I got for you. Why write the book and why now?

6:54
I was really frustrated. I mean, you know, you preface that a little bit, but I grew up during that You know, grew up I grew up professionally during you know, the the era of traditional advertising and wrote more TV spots and ever cared to imagine. And it was all supposed to be so great, wasn't it? Remember when digital was supposed to just be this Promised Land, everybody would be would get the right messages at the right time and, and we will all be so fulfilled in our jobs. And it just and I thought it sucks like this, what is happening here, there was so much potential. And still nobody's using the tools to their full advantage. Still people are unhappy in their work, and still, you know, people are being disrupted. Why is that? And I just thought it's we're overthinking this. And it's time to get back to some business basics. And when I looked at what really separated great brands and great leaders, it was really based on what they think what they did what they said, and I thought we needed that simple framework to guide people.

7:53
Yeah, I love the story you tell in the book about REI. You might like Cause a little bit about it for they actually understand don't give it all away cuz I want them to read it all in the book but

8:04
REI you know which is an outdoor Equipment Co Op in 33 states in the US you know competing heavy retail I mean retail is just the the most disrupted industry event. And Rei came out and in 2015 and launch they were starting initiative called #optoutside. And in the announcement of it, they established what their brand believe they don't use the term brand belief it's what I use, but their brand belief and they said we believe a life lived outside is a life well lived. So that's the first step which is they don't believe in the thing they sell. Other people sell that and they don't believe in you know, lotions and everything else. They actually believe in something that is strategically linked to what they sell, but it's above and beyond that. So they believe a life lived outside is a life well lived. Secondly, what did they do to reinforce that belief, and it's really easy to you know, talk about that. Well, what they did was They closed the store on Black Friday, a day that, you know, everybody is, you know, in other stores trampling sales staff. So they closed the store on Black Friday. So they did it. And then they talked about it. And it is a really authentic and honest way with the CEO being the face of it. So they thought it, they did it, they said it and I thought it was just such a great, you know, example of things to say in action. And they still do it today and it grows and grows and to all the doubters out there. The first year they did it and closed on Black Friday. They actually grew revenue nine points year over year,

9:36
but you know what the best part of the story is also so I told that little story before I got on the plane, I was having a drink with our with our CFO in San Francisco. And I said in his comment being the CFO and cynical he goes, Oh yeah, but they were still open cyber wise, right. So people go online. I said no, they shut down the whole thing. So they didn't, they even wanted their customers. Not they wanted them to be outside enjoying life, right? As opposed to and when I when he said he didn't believe me, Ron he pulled out his phone, he googled and he goes, Oh my god, you're right they, they they don't they're not even open to buy online. That's a brand you love and then two other people we had with it. Three years ago when they did it for the first time they became members, both people the other two people at the table said I became members of REI right after that. So we've actually one amazing

10:27
you know, I love it.

10:29
I love it. Brand belief. I mean, which goes back down to it is brand belief right? Like, why is brand belief so important and why do so many people get wrong?

10:41
Well, it's important because it it really does provide a thread through all of your communications and all of your you need something that links all that stuff together. It's the check that we need, right like this. Yeah, but does this serve our higher purpose? And I you know, people think they get Got it with mission and vision and all that, and I just that those have become, one they become, they're very focused on the tactical side of the business of life. Our mission is to become the best retailer in the world. And, and they're often written with, but it's just like it's a buzzword bingo card and, and the CEO, you know, kind of refers to it in some flippant that's the first slide of their deck at an off site. And then the whole room like, you know, group of robots repeats the mission statement. And the reality is that does it mean anything to anybody to how it affects their own individual performance or, or what they're supposed to do to live up to that? They can say it, they can repeat it, but it means nothing to them. And brand belief. It's just I think it's so much easier to articulate. Don't tell me what you sell. Tell me what you believe. Right? And the organization can believe something. It's also a nice check for the person to go to, I believe that, because if I don't, then maybe I'm not in the right place, and that's okay. But maybe I should align my values and my beliefs with an organization and I give my time and energy. I love it I in the book, one of the things was really compelling to me is a story you told about a chef, you know, who did something with Red Bull, right? And he doesn't even drink the product right? And they still wanted him like Why? Yeah, Matt Bacilli Red Bull came to him and said we'd like to do some some shooting video with you and he said, I loved you like I love your brand, but I can't I can't drink Red Bull. It just my body doesn't react well to that much caffeine and they like said, so, wouldn't ask you, or expect you to chug Red Bull on screen, No. And you know, Red Bull kind of stated look, like we connect with people on values and beliefs. And we know that enough of those people will convert and those that don't That's totally cool. Isn't that

13:02
also part of the reason why people don't trust influencers the way they used to trust influencers? I mean, I heard a story that I heard a story where Justin Timberlake, for example, is was a sponsor or was an influencer for Levi's. And for Nike, right? But he's loved Nike his whole life, right? He always is wearing Nike. He's passionate about the product. He's using Levi's theoretically because he's paid to use Levi's and when he does a Levi's spot it doesn't really move the needle. Right? But when he does anything Nike related it moves the needle. So it's you have to be true but why do you think influences are dead or paid influencers are dead?

13:47
No, not at all. I you know, and we full disclosure, we here at Church+State you know, we we run some influencer programs we have and we continue to do so. I think there's a I think the first point is I think there is a difference between The Celebrity as influencer, right? Because celebrities, I think they've always been influencers. And I think there is a belief like, oh, but this is not their only gig, like, this is the side hustle for them. Whereas a lot of traditional, you know, our traditional thought or definition of influencer, that is the hustle. Yeah, that is their job. And I think it's those people who lost trust. And the reason for that is that the reason that a lot of consumers went to those people as content creators, was this. This was a wave of people who realized they could shoot and produce content cheaper than ever before. They could distribute that content faster and more efficient to more people than ever before. And they could deliver messaging that they really wanted to deliver. They didn't have to, they have to go to legal and say Is it okay if I say this and so what came across was a really authentic unbiased. As creative and content, people bought into that, and then the second, you know, algorithms changed and social platforms and brands said, How do we get to our end audience, we just go to those people because they built up a following. And we'll just pay them. And then the second that those people just sold their soul for a paycheck. And we're just selling anything and everything. And that's where people are like, no, but this is, I paid you

15:30
because you didn't have a sales gloss.

15:32
So can you still use them? 100% but you can use them as a media channels and just compare the cost of those eyeballs to other you know, forms of media. Or you can you can do your homework and really connect with people who authentically are linked to your product and who don't just want the paycheck. And when you do that, I think it

15:52
can still be really powerful. Yeah, it says because at Intrado, part of our businesses, you know, media monitoring is a big part of our of our business. And our customers and you know, and then we own a referral marketing company called ambassador, which is all about creating micro influencers, true influencers for people who love the product and want to get their friends involved with the product. We actually find that so much more powerful than anything else.

16:16
They try more they're more authentic, they're eager. Yeah, I agree with you.

16:21
Alright, so here's a question going back to back to the book and TDS I think do you say, one is, I loved you a little wheel and you were you explained everything about TDS. But if someone's coming up with their whole brand belief, you're really adamant about you have to follow this strict order. Like how did you come up with the order and why? You can't Why can't you bypass any part of it?

16:46
Well, some people want to just do one of the three and you know, if you just think as an organization, then you're a think tank. You know, you really have to crank on stuff, that's where you make your money. But if you just do and it's not linked back to something, then it's way too random. And you're probably a sweatshop. And if all you do is talk about stuff, but you don't actually ever do it, then then you know, then you're in constant churn mode and always in acquisition. And it's really funny because often, people in introducing me or like I did a TV interview,

17:23
and the TV and everyone He's

17:24
the author of things say do and they want to put the say before the do, let's think about it, let's talk about it. And then the do is the final place. And that I think, is just wrong. I think that if people lack trust, they lack trust because they hear something. And then when they go to experience it, the experience doesn't line up with the promise that they heard, right. And so the action had already be in place so that by the time we do talk about it, we're already delivering on it and we deliver the on the expectation. If we get those mixed up in the Order people aren't going to trust us.

18:02
All right, so you give a good analogy that with a camper umm camper and Casa Camper, right? went to their hotel, but they followed it exactly right. They think they do and they say their whole brand belief in everything they do.

18:19
Yeah, this was a it's a great hotel. They have two locations, one in Berlin and one in Barcelona and my wife is like, hey, there's this hotel was stay there and I looked at the logo, like, it looks like the camper shoe logo. It's called Casa campers is that the shoe people? So I literally booked some time with the general manager while I was there because I wanted to right off the trip. And

18:42
I interviewed her to say,

18:44
I want to you know, I've got this book coming out and I want to talk to you about why why do you own a hotel, your your a shoe company, and she was adamant. She said we are not a shoe company. We're a company who happens to make shoes. But how we define ourselves is that it's based on health simplicity and design, right? And so they have to think apart, you know, and then they just said, Well, we look to diversify our portfolio, which is another great part of part of having a purpose or a belief that goes beyond what you sell, you could diversify your portfolio. And so they said, you know, what else could we get into we looked at health, simplicity and design and thought, hospitality. Now, this could be the thing that could really separate this out. And so they built this hotel and you know, the what they had all these great touches of actions they took to reinforce health, simplicity and design, but the one I actually loved most was their stairwells, because stairwells, we forget about the stairwells, we ignore the stairwells, there's like, you know, never nothing good ever happened in the stairwell. But in this hotel, the stairwells were as important as the rest of the hotel. They painted them. There were art on the walls. And that was beautiful. Great design. And so yeah, I absolutely loved every experience within the hotel because it all laddered up to the purpose that they

20:10
established. This is awesome, which is what everyone's doing everyone's brand you gotta you gotta, you gotta follow your belief without going to make a right turn in your book. And my favorite new term is pitch slap. First, explain the terms to people understand what it is and give us a couple of examples. I love the the list that you gave where the people who pitch slap on LinkedIn, but that's a whole nother thing. So I'd love to give. Tell them a little bit about how you came up with it. Why is it in the book and what does it mean?

20:41
So first of all, what it means and people can probably appreciate what it means you hear the term and you're like, I've kind of the I know that because I've been I've felt it. But a pitch lab to me is just when you put your your own needs ahead of the person that you're interacting with. And we've all we've all experienced the pitch lap on some level. where somebody is talking to us, but in the back of their mind, they just want to pitch us. That's all they want to do. And everything they say before that is just to manipulate the conversation. So they could deliver that pitch. And then when it happens, what do you feel like? It feels like you've been pitch slapped. And how they came up with it was I didn't come up with it. I was just sitting in a meeting with a with a old client. He said something about pitch lap, and I said, that is a great term. I'd like to use that somewhere. And I said, I will give you full credit. He's like, Oh, I did. I don't remember who I heard from the guy who was a guy. So yeah, I incorrectly get

21:47
credited with creating it. But it wasn't it wasn't me

21:52
I'm gonna keep on telling people it was here because I think it's pretty awesome. I doesn't change the subject for a second. So are you still a stand up comic or were you a stand up comic? How did comedy get into your life? I'm assuming it happened after your paper route.

22:08
Yeah, yeah did well though that was a source of material. Yeah, I was you know, an ad guy for a while I've always been that guy for most of my career. I was a I actually started as an account guy running the Intel business and and then started doing stand up comedy and eventually had those two worlds come together and, you know, go move into creative, but yeah, I was I was a touring standup for 20 years. I host still hosted a show up until two years ago, when when we you know, my wife and I had our first child and and that just you know, could was demands on my time but, um, so yeah, I was I was a standard for many many years and, and I think it's weird like I because I you know, I speak a ton. And, but I consciously had them removed comedy from my bio. But, you know, I didn't, because I think I had this weird moment where I realized like, there's no, there's no market for a comedian who knows about business. But there's a massive market for a funny business. You know, very subtle. I'm gonna

23:17
just disagree just a drop. So my son, he's 25 always wanted to be a comic and took comedy classes, and then did a bunch of shows. And when he started to look for other jobs, and you talk to people, they love that, that he did it because they go, if you can stand up in front of a room and talk to you when you're looking for a sales role, man, then you could definitely go into a conference room or a boardroom and pitch our product, because there's nothing scarier than stand up comedy. Especially the night that you're not funny.

23:51
Yeah, this skill set is incredible valuable. Oh, yes. 100%. The skill set is incredibly valuable. It's amazing. And I've learned so much and being able to work a room and being able to pick up on the vibe in a room. And just going in without a script and figuring something out and testing or all that stuff. And it worked when I was younger in my career when I was a writer, because they'd go oh, this guy's he knows what he's doing. Right? He's because he's a writer, and he's also accomplished. But as I got more senior, they wanted the creative director that Executive Creative Director knew more about their business than they did about the craft. And I think the same thing from from speakers you want it you kind of get the speaker gonna be funny, but you want to know that they've got the entrepreneurial or the corporate chops, to give you the insights you need to grow. You

24:38
need a perfect mix in your in your keynote. What's the bigger high for you, when you get up and you do a 10/15 minute set of comedy and you kill it. Or when you're in front of you know, 500 or thousand people doing a keynote and you nail it what's like a better high

24:53
a keynote for sure. Because you can combine both and you know, where you can go like, oh I want to try a new bit here a humorous bit, which has a strategic, you know, point to it. And so in the comedy club, you hit the punch line, you get the laugh like, okay, that bit works. That's amazing. And that's it. And that's a great high. But what keynotes deliver you is that, yes, you still get the laughter where everybody gets the joke. And by the way, if you're speaking to, you know, Volvo, and you make a joke about seatbelts. Everybody in the room gets the joke. Every, whereas the comedy club, you're not sure. But then you also get the moment this the moment of silence that follows the laughter. Right? And for me, if you silence a room and get people nodding and seeing them take notes, that's really powerful.

25:50
Awesome. I love that. All right, I got three questions left for you. Question. One is what's your personal brand? What's your personal brand belief

25:59
my personal brand belief Is that people need I believe that people need to laugh. So they can learn that we need to entertain and capture attention for people to get them to pay attention, and so that we can then deliver the thing that we need to deliver or we need to sell the thing that we need to deliver, you know, so it is that balance between capturing attention and delivering on what they're looking for.

26:20
Next question, what's your Uber rating?

26:24
4.8 is it?

26:27
Good? I'm a 464. But I think it's because I live in New York City. And then the question has nothing to do with anything but I've been pondering this, this is what I do. And I've been playing for a long time. If someone came to you for a job interview for you, with you, and his Uber rating happen to be a 195 would you think twice about hiring him? And he had like 500 right.

26:50
Now I'm looking right, yeah. 4.870 my god point eight said,

26:54
You must be a really nice place Canada, people are friendlier in Canada.

27:00
Would you hire someone if they had a 1.9?

27:03
Like, would you think

27:04
what would you think about me? If I said, My Uber ratings of 1.95? Then Then I wouldn't hire you. There's no. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly how I feel. All right, my last question for you. So we get to pay this for if you and I were talking earlier about just in LinkedIn, in general, and it's about we're both really tired of getting pitch slapped on LinkedIn, but every now and then someone reaches out to you and they ask you something sincere and feels great to reach out to them and pay it forward. So can you recommend the book after they've everyone's read, you know, think through, say, another book you think they should read? And I don't want a sales motivation book or how to conquer the world in business book. That's like another book that you recommend to read.

27:53
You have to read Scott Stratton and Alison Stratton's book, The jackass whisperer All right,

27:59
yeah. So this is

28:02
about how to deal

28:04
Yes, I had to deal with the worst people in you know, at work and online and in life including you. Because we are all jackasses. We're all jackasses and we interact with jackasses. And it's a really funny take on all the different types of jackasses that we that we interact with. Hey, Ron, thank you

28:23
so much. And everybody. This is really I'm not just saying this. It's a great book. It's changed the way I thought I actually took a couple photos. I actually sent this to my entire leadership team to get but I actually took a couple pictures. Yes, they were sending it through like different sales leaders and getting their comments back on one page, and they were like, everyone was blown away. They love. They love what you know, they do say, and everyone has their own philosophy on how to do it. You put it together pretty amazing. And thank you, Ron. Have a great rest of the year.

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