Insights with Ben Chodor

Conversation with Rhonda Vetere (Grit & Grind)

June 29, 2021 Ben Chodor Season 2 Episode 6
Insights with Ben Chodor
Conversation with Rhonda Vetere (Grit & Grind)
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Show Notes Transcript

How can you find the resiliency to power through, take risks, and achieve extraordinary things? Grit and grind - two words, ten principles, and one fantastic conversation.

 

Ben and author Rhonda Vetere take us through the grit and grind philosophy: how to listen better, communicate more openly, go all in, and stay in the moment. Looking for better, more impactful ways to spend the 1,440 "silver tokens" we get in minutes every day? These two inspiring leaders have the ideas to help you turn discipline into freedom to achieve your goals.

 

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Ben Chodor: 0:00
Good morning! Good afternoon! Good evening, wherever you are! Welcome to Insights with Ben Chodor, where I have the privilege of interviewing people that I think are amazing. And this episode, I get to interview the author of this incredible book, "Grit and Grind" - two of my favorite words. To begin with the 10 principles for living an extraordinary life, Rhonda, thank you so much for being on. This is incredible! But I got to tell you something, Rhonda. This is how you had me: you had me at "Hello" in the book. Because right in the introduction - I'm going to read this verbatim: "You can't tell me that it's not worth it. If you go all in, you experience tremendous growth and change in your leadership style, even if the only person you're leading is yourself. Welcome to being truly alive." How incredible [is it]? I mean, so you had me at that moment. So my first question for you is, why did you write the book? And more importantly, do you feel alive? I mean, [with] all your travels and adventures? Did you always know you were going to be a leader?

Rhonda Vetere: 1:15
Oh, great question. First off, Ben, thanks for having me. It's honor to be here with you. You're a wonderful leader yourself. What made me write the book? A bunch of my peers and CEO friends kept saying you need to write a book about everything you've learned. And this is my second book. The other one was a technical dummies book. So, I really wanted to take a moment - and I didn't tell anyone when I was writing it at all. So I wrote it, because everyone kept saying you should put these adventures down. And I do feel alive. I did not know that, in my I would say 20s and 30s working as much. So that's why I'm all about into cultural immersion. I was just working on the hamster wheel. And now we're on Zoom wheel as we feel today, and the pandemic. But I think when I found that moment, and I knew it, that's why I wrote it down. Because it's pivotal that, if you lead like that, your team fills your energy - positive or negative. And I do feel alive and I'm proud of it, Ben, and it helps me lead every day.

Ben Chodor: 2:21
I love that. So here's a question. Have your thoughts on leadership changed it all over the last 14 months of COVID? Like, if you were gonna write the book now, would it be anything different? Or in some ways, I think it's even more important today to be an incredible leader. But what have you learned from COVID?

Rhonda Vetere: 2:44
Well, to answer your other question, I always knew I wanted to be a leader. Through sports - I knew that early on. I didn't know what it would look like, as I grow up through the career. How would I change the book? I would even talk about being... I talked about in the book being present in the moment; enjoying the time. That's why the cultural immersions are so important to learn diversity of thought, each culture, because you get on these Zoom calls now, Ben, in this pandemic, and you have to be present - you have to power through things, no matter the screen time, the risks. The resiliency of leading is so important through the pandemic, because everything is two dimensional, and you want it to be three dimensional. And I would write more about how you lead, not with human contact.

Ben Chodor: 3:37
Right, which in some ways is much harder. It's easier for me to lead in person, and you could follow me and you could, you know, see my vibe and feel the energy and you can't feel it as much on one of these. And you're right - being present is really, really important. So, first, again, I said at the very beginning, I love the word[s] "grit and grind", but what is the "grit and grind philosophy"?

Rhonda Vetere: 4:00
Oh, doing what it takes! Getting your hands dirty; diving down into the details. Just knowing every detail! You're going to have those moments, like, what am I doing? How am I persevering? I feel I'm hitting the iceberg. Push through the iceberg! Grind it out, don't stop! And you just feel the hard work. And it's so important to have that philosophy as a leader and whatever your purpose and vision and mission is. It's important to have that mentality.

Ben Chodor: 4:31
It is! It's interesting. So for my 1400 people around the world, I always sit there; so I do a really crazy thing. I'm the final interview for anyone in our organization that is client-facing. So last year alone, we hired close to 200 people, and I'm the final interview. And they ask about your leadership style, and I go: "Our executive leadership team is very blue collar". And I mean, we roll up our sleeves, we get dirty and we're in the business and we don't lead from on top of the business. And when I'm reading your book, all [that] keeps on popping out [to] me is like, you're not just leading from on top; you're in it. And you're also really big on empowering, you know, members of your organization - which I think is one of the keys. So before we even get into chapter one, you advise that you need discipline to start seeing results from the 10 "grit and grind principles". How can discipline be your key to freedom? Or the key that locks you in?

Rhonda Vetere: 5:31
Discipline is everything. I think we found that even more during this pandemic, what are your daily rituals, your habits? What do you do at five in the morning? Swimming is my go-to, even during the pandemic. That discipline on knowing the goal, what you're going for, is so important. And having those, you know; the average human takes seven or eight times to hear something to get it. And with repetition and discipline, you just find your normal cadence, and it's very important to have in your life and [in] leading.

Ben Chodor: 6:02
So, just being a triathlete, alright? I'm training for my first triathlon; I was supposed to do it a year ago, now in May in Connecticut, and obviously, it was canceled. And then I was supposed to do it in Montauk, because I'm staying in East Hampton. And then that was cancelled. And now I'm going to do it in September in Montauk, and all the training, I think it's made me better at everything I do. Because I have to start every morning at 4:30, 5:00 AM to get in the full workout. It makes me more disciplined, and I find that I take that, and I bring it into my work environment. So, like you mentioned, being an athlete and training for a triathalon - does that force you to be more disciplined?

Rhonda Vetere: 6:46
Yeah. So first off, congratulations on signing up. Number one, that's a big deal, because you commit when you hit that return ENTER button. So Ben, I can't wait to hear how you do. And training does help! Because you show up, you have a schedule, and think of your calendar - every 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And, I talked about in the book, scheduled 22 minutes and 42 because you can't do back to back and you need transition time. Transition time is a triathlete term. And so I do pivot transition, and I bring my athletic abilities being an Ironman 70.3 into the workplace. And I think it's very parallel, Ben, very parallel.

Ben Chodor: 7:28
You know, it's interesting, because you also, on principle three, you talk a lot about, you know? Not a lot, but you talk a whole chapter basically on 1,440 minutes we have in each day, and they're like silver tokens and how you spend them is like a key. So what were you trying to tell in that story?

Rhonda Vetere: 7:49
I was trying to tell 1,440; think of currency. It's currency, and you have time as a currency. How are you best going to utilize your time? How are you going to calendar it? The rigorousness, just like a race - you have that, [and] it's free every day. God willing, we all wake up when we have that. And you get to choose: time is currency and who you spend your time with. What's important during the day, do you want wellness breaks? And I really wanted to hit home with that, Ben, because time is currency; so many people waste time. And that's one of my pet peeves. I don't like to waste time. Even meetings need to have a purpose.

Ben Chodor: 8:29
Right? All right. I love that about time. And I feel the same way. Someone asked me recently if I could have one thing I want more time, right? There's not enough time in a day. COVID is actually made everyday feel like 12 noon on a Wednesday, right? There's no beginning, middle or end. Your next principle, principle four, [is] listening. This is one that I try to... I'm trying to become a better listener. And I think it's one of the keys to success. Sometimes the smartest people in the room are the ones who aren't always trying to give their opinion - they listen. But you say listening is the most important first step in a conversation. What's your three-step process of listening?

Rhonda Vetere: 9:09
Three? Well, listening is pivotal because you have to understand someone's point of view and where they're coming from and not cut them off. Everyone has the right to their own feelings. Try to understand what they're going through, what's the purpose, what are they trying to tell, and I pause. And, Ben, I'm often sometimes the quiet one in the room a lot because I process before I speak to make sure I have all the facts. Before I make a decision. Sometimes you can't always, if you're in a crisis mode. But there's always another part of the story that I try to understand if I have the time, but listening and etiquette are so important these days because everyone wants this new generation instant gratification and you need to listen to understand to make a decision. 

Ben Chodor: 9:56
I love that. Alright, so jumping - because there's so much I want to cover in this very short time. Principle seven, communicate openly; you talk about nonverbal cues being just as important as verbal cues. What are the verbal and nonverbal cues people should replicate?

Rhonda Vetere: 10:14
I think when you're processing and listening on Zoom, eye contact is key. Not multitasking, looking at folks, and having your emotion come out. And you know, I understand everyone has screen time. But really nodding is a great nonverbal [cue]; eye contact! I look for that all the time, shoulders, who's really into the moment, you could tell Ben and you can see when you're listening, who's in the moment and who's not - even on Zoom, and without in life. And I really look at nonverbal cues up, on the phone video, I'm the first one to be flipping through the screens.

Ben Chodor: 10:15
I always do!

Rhonda Vetere: 10:16
Your leadership's like this, because you're you do all this, you're a great leader. And I admire you for your leadership. Because when we chatted, you listened. You listen to the story, you processed. We were both calm in the heat of the moment. And we both, you know, came together, we're now a team. So I think it's great. I think that's a great live example, Ben.

Ben Chodor: 11:18
We fixed it, and that's exactly the point. And that's, I think, [in] any relationship, it's about listening and putting the best foot forward. And a lot of people don't do it. But it's interesting when you say that about like on a Zoom call or WebEx call; I always look around, and I try not to look at my phone, I try to give eye contact and I noticed when people are not paying attention. And it irks me a little bit and but I understand there's so much going on. But it's really interesting to know when people are paying attention, where, you know, before when [it] was just a conference call, you had no idea. And I never I don't think I ever paid attention when it was just a conference call. But when it's video, you look and you know that people are looking at you. And I also don't like when people are on Zoom calls and WebEx is and they don't share their video - I think it's a cheat, right? And engage! I'm going to give you all of me, you should give all of you, which then leads to this: your principle eight is recognize your team. And you mentioned treat them like family. My whole goal is I want to build a team around me that are all smarter than me. All better to me, I want to empower them. And they do become my family. So for you, what [does] recognizing your team mean?

Rhonda Vetere: 12:38
I give them all the credit, singularly, as a team unit, when they make a major milestone - it's all about the team. It's not about one person. You know, teamwork makes the dream work. It's true. Everyone in life has a team. Look at your support system and your family life. It's a team. It's not one person, even in the workplace, it's grander, and the team, it's all about teamwork. If you have an ego, forget it. If you're into glorification, forget it. And that won't fly in these cultures at all. And it's all about recognizing people in the moment, Ben. Here's another nugget: It needs to be real time recognition and feedback don't give someone recognition two months later, three months, six months. It loses, you know, the validity of it and the moment.

Ben Chodor: 13:33
It's also not only just good feedback, it's radical candor, right? So, you know, a pet peeve is when someone says you know what you did three months ago? You should have done it differently. My first comment would be like, why don't you tell me right after it happened? So I don't do it again for the next three months, which I've done and I find that you know, I work really well when people give me radical candor. I try to give it to them and it's good. It could be good information. It could be corrective information, but don't sit on it and I think a lot of people's nature is: I'm non-confrontational and giving people feedback isn't confrontational. It's makes you a better person, I think.

Rhonda Vetere: 14:12
Yeah, makes you grow. If you're a leader you don't wait for your mid-year of your end of the year to give feedback, right? That's that's a no-no. But as a human, Ben,I would challenge you to think [about] who did you give feedback to in your personal life lately? Not work, but your friends! I find [that] my friends during COVID need to get feedback even more because, you know, we don't see them! We see all everyone at work family on Zoom. So friends, it's like, what's going on? Are you really okay? You're silent. What's the problem? I mean, I'm giving them feedback that way.

Ben Chodor: 14:45
I know. I agree. It works in personal and in professional. And then eventually a lot of your personal becomes what you've met in professional. I mean, if I look at my closest friends, a lot of them I've had engagements with; whether they were client, competitor, coworker, just working with them. When you're in the war with them, it speeds up your relationship exponentially - which is, to me one of the best parts of growing a career is building that family. So team building, do you have any, when you take over a new team, like when you joined Herbalife and you as a CIO, when you add a new team, is there certain things you do to sort of test out team or engaged with the team that have worked for you?

Rhonda Vetere: 15:33
Oh, it happened before the pandemic. So I got to a couple of the regions, but I meet with them, have all hands. During the pandemic, we do team exercises on Zoom, which is not just talking about work, Ben - it could be anywhere from teams doing fun Family Feud, to mental wellness, to exercising together, because I'm a big health and wellness person. So I always want to work in exercising, not for folks to get hurt or be competitive, but just [to] get them to move. It can be active meditation on Zoom, we do meditation together. And that's a team bonding, right? Think about getting on Zoom and meditating for three minutes and four seconds. That just helps so much. And then we also do this Getting to Know You series, that everyone does a one-pager about getting to know yourself, and we nominate people throughout, it just keeps on going through the organization. And I find that that has really helped because it's not talking about technology. It's talking about the human aspect for folks to get to know each other.

Ben Chodor: 16:41
I love that. I want to try that. I do. So I took over... our organization started April 13th,  2018. And so we are now 170 weeks into our company. And I've done a video every Friday, for 170 weeks, and this week will be 170. And I get seven or eight or nine members of the organization to tell their story and share it spread it because, having you know, close to 1500 people in 17 countries around the world, you don't get to see each other. And I find during COVID, you need [it] even more. But I find, for me, it's now my therapy every week. I get to just open up look in the camera and tell everyone what I'm going through. And it makes them feel like they can open up and tell us what they're going through. And again, building a culture, how do we all work together? And so what you're saying just so resonates with me. The next part of your book that I love is you talk about managerial courage. Right? So for the audience, what is managerial courage?

Rhonda Vetere: 17:51
Managerial courage is so important. When you really are sitting on something that's a problem, you need to bring it forward as soon as possible. And first off, you need to create a safe environment as a leader so that folks feel like they can express themselves. And having the courage to speak up when there's an issue? Whether it's an overspend in a budget line item or someone not getting along in a team work, whatever is on your mind, having the courage to step forward and speaking what you know, speaking your mind, and I love that, Ben, no matter what it is, love, bad news story. I just love when people speak up and reach out and having that courage. I think more people in the world need to have that courage -in life, too.

Ben Chodor: 18:36
Why do you think in an organization, people... are they scared of authority? Or they're scared [of] the repercussions of it? And why don't people share? I mean, I try to tell everyone like, we're no silos organization, share your ideas. What's the worst we're ever going to do is say, hey, Rhonda, it's a good idea. But we're not going to do it for this reason. But you're not a name on a spreadsheet. You're You're now somewhere in my mind, whether it's promotion down the road, or where you're going? Why are people so scared of having the courage?

Rhonda Vetere: 19:07
I think it's depends on the company. Number one, the culture of the company. So I've seen very safe cultures. And to that promote that, some just say that and they don't want it, Ben. So the organization says, Oh, you say that, but your the leadership doesn't follow through. So I think some folks get that. But when you're leading from the top, and I call it you need to lead from every chair - who cares what title it is; everyone is equal and, everyone can speak up. And I think we as leaders need to promote that even more. And when someone does in a meeting, Ben, and I just had a town hall this morning - I said great managerial courage in front of everyone. Love it! Please keep speaking up! So the more you recognize in the moment, going back to real-time feedback, and calling out that managerial courage, everyone's like Oh, this is what we mean. 

Ben Chodor: 20:02
Exactly. Now, I love that. One of the things I love in the book. I love the stories, because it's not just principles and information - you tell stories. I also love how you thank people in the book. I recently wrote a book and on the first page, you'd say, cut people who changed your life. And then just names of people, you wrote a few sentences about everyone in your life. And one of the things that resonated with me was not the friends that you put in and the family members is like, I worked with this person here, and they did this and it followed through! It means that they've all kind of imprinted something on your life. And hopefully, it made you a better leader, right? Because they all they all add to it. What made you decide to really pay tribute to all those people?

Rhonda Vetere: 20:52
Thank you for picking that up, Ben! The publisher thought I was crazy. Number one, at first. But it really resonated, because that's from my heart. What makes me tick; every one of those folks that I mentioned, had an impact on my life. And I've told them, but when you see it in print, it was pretty substantial. And I wanted folks to know that they're a part of the nucleus, and how they've impacted my life personally and professionally. And a lot of folks don't understand how one moment can change someone's life. And I wanted folks to reflect on that because - and I invited them all to the book party. And, I was so blessed that they showed up, then, because they didn't know; I mean, that that wasn't just a party that was like I was giving back to them to thank them for everything that they've done. And they often didn't know what I wrote in the book to them. And thank you for picking up on that.

Ben Chodor: 21:49
I mean, listen, I like to say that I love the book. But my favorite part is the part that you sit there and go. I mean, I read every single one of them because they were short, sweet. And they told a story. And it allowed me to get to know really who the author is, right? When you read a book you go, I believe in your principles. I love what you're saying about courage and grit and grind and how I got there. But you opened your heart, you were very vulnerable in what you said. And that shows some courage. Right? That's, you know, and I just thought that was amazing. All right, if we were going to wrap this up, and you had to give advice to you know, anyone in my organization or anyone out there in their career journey, what would you want them to know? Besides, everyone should read this book. Because it's incredible.

Rhonda Vetere: 22:36
Thank you, Ben. I would want them to know that I want them to have people that they write down like in the book, Ben. And if you can't write down a core group of nucleus folks have impacted you, something's wrong. And I would also want them to thank them. You know I'm big on mentorship. So I always say have you solidified your mentorship? Because often folks don't know that they're looked up to, but to solidify a mentor, is - I can't stress this enough. You have to say that to someone. And I will also want the audience to know in these times, being mobile, and being where you are in life is just learn from it. Learn and it's okay. It's okay to be challenged. I would want them to know that that pit in your stomach is a good feeling too, Ben.

Ben Chodor: 23:27
I actually think it's it's the best feeling because life isn't supposed to be like this. It's supposed to be a roller coaster ride, and you need challenges; you need to fail forward. It just makes you better at everything you do. I think after reading this book, I am a better leader and I feel honored that you're on the show. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I will let you know how I do in my triathlon. And stay safe and thank you for being here. 

Rhonda Vetere: 23:44
I can't wait. I look up to you, Ben, you're a great leader. Thank you for all you do. 

Ben Chodor: 24:00
All right. Have a great day. 

Rhonda Vetere: 24:01
Thanks.